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We may need a change in strategy here Latin
by AMR 8:09pm Sun Oct 5 '03

It is a time for a fresher thinking and approach
print article

Though I am not so keen about the photograph of the bombers remains I can understand the feeling of helplessness that leads to that kind of frustration that in turn driving Amir’s publishing of the picture.

I see one value though in the picture publishing….

That picture and others may lead some “Nice Souls” here and among the Militant Left that the war with the Palestinian is a very ugly issue and when they are cheering the “Rights” of the Palestinians for “Resistance” that is the reality behind.

Sambo is perfectly correct, the issue is not the photo, the issue is the devilish act of a sick minded Palestinian.

Close to one thousand Israelis murdered in this last war (Intifada) with the Palestinians only few has decided to take a personal revenge (Shalhevet Pass father). That positions us clearly in a highest moral value then the Palestinians (The vast majority of them according to repeated poles)

On the other hand The Hallucinated Left is fast to “Understand” the suicide bombers but fast as much of slamming the Israeli reaction to the sheer acts of murders by the bombers, holding the “Occupation” as the reasoning behind while it is clear by now that this issue, though important is low on the Palestinian leadership priority list

Even if we are in sympathy (Just assuming) with the desires of the Palestinians for own homeland we have to understand that there is uncrossable Bold RED Line of achieving that.
The goal of the Palestinian in achieving there independence is not justifying ALL means. Just like the hatred of the Germans to the Jews (without getting into the idiotic rationality of such hatred) can not justify the elimination and murder of six millions Jews and half a million Gypsies.

There are hundred of other ways, other then the Suicide bombing, to act upon independence.

We have to put it very boldly, if the only known way to achieve independence by the Palestinians is the way of suicide bombing then they do not deserve their freedom.
Then they are not deserving their independence and homeland, it is that clear cut and obvious.

We should not being afraid of a sever action against the Palestinians that may “Put the Middle East on Flames”. It seems that a drastic move may be the only solution to the conflict’s resolution.

By and by we are witnessing the situation that being rational, reasonable, understanding Etc, is just not working with the Palestinians and some of the Arab countries.
Some of them will never let go, give up their dream of Israel destruction, let’s face it, whatever we will do about it.

The number of casualties of the last war with the Palestinians is reaching the mid-point of the number of casualties as the result of the Yum Kippur war.

One big difference though, Yom Kippur war ended after three weeks while this war has not yet even started (so to speak).

If to examine issue based on achieved results then one blow that is having the chances of rearrange the relationship in out region is far more desirable then slow agonizing blood letting that its conclusion is far away of us if any.

We may need a change in strategy here…

add your comments


 

That's right Hebrew
by anti-zionist jew 8:50pm Sun Oct 5 '03

print comment

That's right. The Palestinian people WILL NOT give
up! They will be victorious! Palestine will be
free, from the river to the sea. Zionists must
leave the Middle East and Humanity's Planet NOW!
The Palestinian freedom fighters are fighting on
in the spirit of the fighters of the Warsaw
Ghetto and the concentration camp inmates at
Sobibor against the Nazis of today, the genocidal
racist child murdering zionists and their U.S.
imperialist task masters.
NO JUSTICE NO PEACE!
DOWN WITH THE PHONY SELLOUT "ROAD MAP."
VICTORY TO THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE!
GLORY TO THE PALESTINIAN FREEDOM FIGHTERS WHO
EMBODY THE BEST OF HUMANITY AND WILL STRIKE A
MILLION MORE BLOWS FOR FREEDOM, ON AND ON UNTIL
"ISRAEL" IS GONE AND THE ZIONIST DOGS WITH IT!
WAR WITHOUT TERMS!
VICTORY TO THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE!
PISS ON THE GRAVES OF THE ZIONIST DOGS!

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Reexamine Hebrew
by Look In The Mirror 8:57pm Sun Oct 5 '03

print comment

You achieved the Zionist Dream of a State (and
WMD) of their own to control through violence and
force, but you don't want that for yourselves.
Niiiice.

Supporting the Palestinians is not synonymous
with support for 'terrorism', just as supporting
Israel does not have to mean that you support
Sharon, the Settlements, the Occupation, the
killing, starving, devatstaion, and humiliation
of civilians, etc, etc, etc.

Yet you seem to be advocating Open Warfare, the
same thing Netanyahu related to Canadians and
Americans on his recent Hate Speech tour of N.
America.

Give your head a shake, man. These people are
your brothers.

add your comments


 

look in the mirror - but make sure that the bedroom is not on fire first Latin
by yohay 9:11pm Sun Oct 5 '03

print comment

unfortunately, at this stage giving active support for the palestinian cause(which I believe is justified BTW), is an underlined support for terrorism. if they do not figure out that it is the source of their misery, nothing will move forward. the longer they refrain from confronting the terror organizations, the greater is the likelihood that there will be a civilian war in the PA in a later stage. from a pragmatic stand point, there is absolutely no chance to discuss anything until hamas and IJ are disarmed. ofcourse there is the benovalent option that the intelligent comrade above suggests of fighting till the last man stands, but It does not seem to be a very good one.

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To whomit maycocern: Latin
by / 1:43am Mon Oct 6 '03

print comment

The Palestinians, whether you are in agreement with their tactics or not, are fighting for a noble cause, that is to live on the land of their ancestors free of abuse from european settlers.
The fact is that people should avoid violence at every opportunity and not use it as a pretext to violate the human rights of the native population, which only yearns to live on the land their ancestors were dispossesed of and are continuing to be until now.

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also Latin
by / 1:45am Mon Oct 6 '03

print comment

btw, if you are in disagreement with their tactics, you must be equaly in disagreement with the tactics Zionist advocate, which are just as violent.

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Ending Occupation Is The Cause of the Living. Latin
by Shmarta Harry 2:12am Mon Oct 6 '03

print comment

..wanting to live longer.

Massive retaliations have proven over and over again that besides eventually incurring the bad opine of the world (which ultimately is not good for Israel's ecconomy) they make everyone in Israel more unsafe.

This woman was not ignorant.
Will a government continue in its ignorance of what actions motivate such deranged behavior? will it continue in those actions that make it easier to recruit suicide bombers?

We are all the losers here. Those that will not choose to die but who are murdered and martyred. And anyone who dares question this is told that "democracy" is at work?!

Here's a clue about real "democracy"
Democracy allows for dissent, and takes dissent into consideration, especially dissent that can only improve an endlessly bad situation.

H.

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Is Thee zionist agenda all its cracked up to be? Latin
by not so soon? 2:27am Mon Oct 6 '03

print comment

The Zionist cabinet cynically exploits the death of their electorate to pursue its unholy agenda of expanding its vague borders.
If they had an incling of concern for the fate of their citizenry they would built the wall on the 1967 borders, thus protecting the people instead of using them as bargain chips for additional land grabs.

add your comments


 

cowards Latin
by jeffb 3:05am Mon Oct 6 '03

print comment

-- they would built the wall on the 1967 borders, thus protecting the
--people instead of using them as bargain chips for additional land grabs.

The Zionists gave Judaism a rebirth by showing Jews how to be a country again. And every county knows that borders are paid for in blood.

add your comments


 

to jeffb Latin
by hello 3:23am Mon Oct 6 '03

print comment

do you believe in the mantra end justifies the means.
and do you thus support the use of violent tactics to achieve your final goals?

add your comments


 

The addendum to the Israeli strategy change suggestions Latin
by AMR 6:19am Mon Oct 6 '03

print comment

It seems that respondents here are enjoying limited understanding in Middle East strategy so I will add some addendum to my call for a possible change in strategy.

When charting up strategy you have to hold several major building blocks for design:

1. Having a real, true, up to the minute intelligence
2. Empirical tools to analyze the data and facts and coming to a conclusion
3. Conclusions must point to a short term and long terms goals
4. Being clean of side noises(who ever understand it, fine)
5. Tactical goals must not be confused with strategic
6. Taking in consideration political, geopolitical, economical and social that is influential on each one of the final conclusions.
7. Taking in consideration the balance of power locally and globally.

I really have no desire to develop all the above into the final conclusions (it could fill up a book easily) so I will jump upfront to the strategic assumptions and solutions, no explanation will be provided here, now.

The reader should have an intimate familiarization and understanding in the Middle East Geopolitical and power balances in order to asses the following correctly.

Assumptions

General assumption

1. Stopping the human terror is costing too much in blood and resources due to the fact that this kind of terror is like an “hydra”, cut one head and you have got to yourself two others on the spot.
2. The Palestinians will be willing to live side by side to Israel only if their leaders will be neutralized.
3. The Palestinian leadership will never neglect its drive to destroy Israel, fulfilling the desire throughout the Arab world that is seeing Israel’s destruction
4. The terror is alive and well due to the support it is enjoying from bases that are “Out of reach” for Israel
5. The blood line of the terror is its finance; those routs of funds must be cut.
6. Intelligence on the terror organizations must be collected using all means that are “Enveloping” the terror activity, such as electronic surveillance and warfare, human moles, political connections and such.
7. Terror organization should be isolated politically and geographically
8. International community should be cooperated fully without exceptions in the war against terror.
9. Israel should remove some stops first and foremost on its action against the terror, not being worried about the international community so much but taking care of its citizens’ security, and start using its power to achieve tactical and strategic wins over the terror. The world political opinion is “Cooked” for some kind of action, denying it in public but silently supporting Israel’s harsher treatment on the terror (Some Arab countries included). The limitation Israel Is putting on itself is actually creating a balance of power between the Palestinian and Israel preventing Israel in exploiting its power advantage and therefore creating a balance of action and reaction that increase the blood shed and is not providing any solution in the foreseeing future.
10. Achieving a non aggression agreement between the Palestinians and Israel in the next 10 years time frame will eliminate most of the long term threats calculated due to the existing Palestinian-Israeli violent activity in the Middle East


Middle East - assumptions

The most viable threats to Israel:

1. Iraq is not posing a threat to Israel in the short and mid-term. Iraq may become a threat to Israel once the USA is out and the Shiaa part will be directed fully and openly by Iran while the Sonaa part will be directed there by Syria. Both possibilities are uncomfortable to Israel.
2. Saudi Arabia has a great chance to become a threat to Israel. The Saudi Kingdom success in resisting El Quadia internal forces are in doubt and the Kingdom may become the next area that is under direct influence of the World Terror much like Afghanistan previously or the southern (previously) Soviet republics now. Even if that scenario will not happen then the Saudi Royal Family will align itself down the road according the terror organization instruction, obviously highly unfavorable to Israel. Saudi Arabia was armed itself in the past several years with huge amount of US weapon that may become the spearhead against Israel in the short and medium term
3. The “cold peace” between Egypt and Israel will proceed. It is more accurate to define the situation here as a pact of not violent relations. Egypt is suffering from huge internal economical and social problems and going to war against Israel is not on its top priority. Nevertheless, Egypt is preparing itself for war in the past several years and not against Sudan or Libya. Egypt is preparing itself against possible problems from Saudi Arabia and Israel. So Egypt may become a threat to Israel in the long term after Mubarak replacement.
4. Iran is the biggest threat to Israel in the short and medium term and it is estimated that this threat will be over in the long term. Iran is financing and supply the Middle Eastern terror organizations these days and using the terror as its long strategic arm against the “infidel” primarily Israel. In addition Iran is working hard on the development of nuclear arm and according to some estimation it is close as much as two to four years to achieve its goal. It is estimated that internal developments in Iran will change the Islamic militant regime to a more tolerant one carrying its own version of a mixture of Islamic-democratic (?) regime their. That change is expected between five to ten years from now. The greatest threat to Israel may come during the decline of the Islamic militant regime and that may happen concurrently to the completion of the Iranian nuclear bomb. The Islamic regime may show an aggressive face against Israel deterring the movements of replacing it using the newly developed nuclear arm as a springboard against Israel. Once the Islamic militant regime was replaced, it is estimated that Iran will become a moderate or even low threat to Israel in the long term.
5. The Palestinian Authority is posing a tactical and short to medium term threat to Israel. The PA is not a strategic threat to Israel though. It is estimated that Israel and the Palestinians needs about 5-10 years for mid-term non-aggression pact and another 5-10 years to come to a full peace treaty. The “Old Palestinian Guard” must go first, following by staged Palestinian terror decline and dismantling (becoming full political non-violent parties) for this scenario to happen.
6. Syria is the only Arab country that posing a short and long terms threat on Israel primarily by harboring, training and financing the Middle East terror organizations and serving as the conduit for Iran in controlling and supplying those organizations. In addition, though weakened somewhat militarily, Syria is influencing negatively from the Israeli stand point Lebanon and the Kingdom of Jordan that are in a close proximity to Israel.
7. The Hisbulla in south Lebanon is a tactical short term threat and strategic long term threat to Israel. Israel may need to dismantle the Hisbulla if its threat will become unbearable. Israel should encourage the Lebanese Government by way of international pressure to absorb the Hisbulla as the political party of south Lebanon in the parliament.

Conclusions

1. Israel should put away NOW the Palestinian “Old Guard”, out of the Palestinian Authority control, being ready for the possible results as a consequences of such action, ahead of time
2. Israel should encourage the Palestinian terror organizations becoming a political force instead of a terror force.
3. Israel should position a “Wall of Steel” against the Palestinian terror
4. Israel should hunt down ANY terror organization’s member no strings attached.
5. Israel should finish as soon as possible the erection of the Security Fence
6. Israel should campaigning and encouraging the international community to boycott Syria economically, financially and politically.
7. Israel should help the progressive, moderate Islamic movements in Iran passively and actively.
8. Israel should impose a real military threat and pressure on Syria preventing it from supplying the Palestinian terror organizations.
9. Israel should not let, Syria harboring the Palestinian terror organizations, taking all viable means in its power in doing so.
10. Israel should prepare for troubles from the Saudi-Israeli border.

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