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Travel in an occupied land
by John Petrovato 5:48pm Tue Jul 22 '03

Qalqilia - 22 Jul Traveling in the Palestinian territories is extraordinarily difficult and exhausting.Even for foreigners, the experience is often wrecked with frustration and danger.As the Israeli state has geographically expanded into the West Bank, it has created a network of obstacles that control and confine movement of Palestinians in Palestine. Along with the creation of Israeli settlements, the hundreds of check-points, road blocks, military outposts, and by-pass roads, have made simple travel even between Palestinian villages nightmarish.
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As governments have historically done with \"frontier\", or ambiguously claimed territory, the Israeli state it appears, hopes that the mere physical presence of its citizens and the accompanied infrastructure will increase the legitimacy of their claims upon the land.

In this essay I hope to illustrate how the vast infrastructure laid across the Palestinian landscape restricts and prevents travel. I will use an example of a trip in which myself and four other internationals from Boston made last week. It involves a roundtrip journey from Jayyous, in the Qalqilya district (along the \"green line\") to Nablus, in the center of West Bank. Even though the distance was short (perhaps only 25 miles or so), such a distance in an occupied land is a difficult journey.

The trip to Nablus used to take about 25 minutes by car. It is now recommended to allow at least 4 hours. The good roads (well-paved highways) that go directly to Nablus are now to be only used by Israeli civilians. A few Palestinians are allowed to travel them with special permission but only within checkpoint zones (which occur every 5 or so miles). The checkpoints prove difficult to navigate for most Palestinians and they avoid them as much as possible. For it is common that people (especially men between the ages of 15 of 50) to be detained for many hours. Thus alternative routes have been created to avoid checkpoints and the experience of humiliation and abuse by the Israeli military.

We left Jayyous in a \"service\", a mini-van taxi cab, shortly after noon. The driver recommended that we seek to enter Nablus through a small village named Jet (pronounced jeet). Nablus, as we had been told the evening before, was closed and that travel through the main check point of Hawwara would be impossible. So we accepted the recommendation of the driver and headed toward Jet. The first half of the distance to Nablus went very quick (perhaps 20 minutes or so). We then came across a temporary check point. A temporary check point is where soldiers create a barrier at a random intersection and force all travelers (except those who are Jewish Israeli) to show papers and be interrogated regarding the nature of one’s travel (how, where, and why one is traveling). If the soldiers are not convinced of one’s explanations, one will be turned back or detained for further investigation. Being that the International Solidarity Movement has been the target of a smear campaign attempting to link it to terrorism and whereby the Israeli government has tried to deport its members, such an explanation would not be advisable. This temporary check point took us by surprise and our group had not had the time to come up with a story. Thus, we would have to make something up on the spot. So Michael D. and myself jumped out of the vehicle and approached the soldiers. They were surprised to see Americans traveling on this particular road and in a Palestinian Taxi. We explained to them that we were tourists visiting a friend in the area. Though they were suspicious of this explanation, Michael had mentioned that we would later travel to the Israeli city of Haifa, the home of one of the soldiers on guard. This loosened them up as they spoke of the city and provided us with directions when we arrive in this non-destination of ours. They also warned us to be careful of all the terrorists lurking about the hills.

A couple of minutes later we arrived in the very small village of Jet. We were directed to walk over a road block (made out of debris and rocks) and follow the dirt road to a paved one about a half mile away. We were accompanied by a number of Palestinian men and women who were also traveling to and from the Nablus area. We came to the paved road and it began to immediately climb steeply up a hill. About 100 yards later we came across a few soldiers lounging out under an olive tree. Upon seeing us approach, they jumped up and met us in the road. We informed them that we were child psychologists on our way to a Nablus hospital. Surprising they believed our ridiculous story and allowed us to continue.

At the top of the hill we found another Service taxi. The taxi had been unloading a group of women and children who were attending a wedding. Upon the children seeing us \"outsiders\" they sadly began to cry and scream. Apparently the children believed that we were Israeli settlers and feared us. When the children were out of the Taxi, we asked the driver if he would be able to take us to Nablus. His response was that it was unlikely - that the military has been patrolling all the roads in the area and that it would be dangerous for him. He would, however, be able to drive us to another village which we can then walk to Nablus (about 4 miles over a mountain). Believing that this was likely our best option, we agreed. A few minutes later we picked up a group university women also traveling to Nablus. With the van packed with people wanting to go to Nablus, the driver said that he would do his best to get us there. So every few meters, whenever another car would pass or if he saw someone sitting outside their house, he would inquire if they had any information about the Israeli military patrolling the hillsides. He was able to learn of a passage which appeared to be safe. The \"road\" we would take was basically two barely visible tire tracks through barren hills. Even on this road, in the middle of nowhere, the van would have to navigate over large former road blocks. It was very difficult travel on this road as the bumps, rocks, and potholes threw us from side to side in the van for about 30 minutes. When we finally reached a smooth dirt road and relief was expected, everyone in the van spontaneously applauded. Shortly later we entered the Nablus suburbs and then later into the city. Nablus is (or perhaps more correctly, \"was\") a beautiful city nestled between mountains with large white buildings. Traveling through the city now has its own hazards. Traffic lights no longer work and destruction to the roads caused by the weight of tanks (as well as the destruction of buildings blown up and falling into the streets) creates a tricky driving experience. In the end we were able to reach our destination in about 3 hours (a length of time which we considered to be relatively fast).

The next morning we attended a non-violent protest that was organized by Palestinian villagers east of Nablus. The goal of their protest was to bring attention to the recent building of a large ditch which runs from an Israeli settlement down into the Palestinian village’s farm land. The ditch carries raw sewage from the settlement directly through the Palestinians lands and the smell emanating from it is unbelievably foul.

In the afternoon we attempted to return to Nablus and spend the evening there. However, this was going to be very difficult as the Israeli military had created a \"closed military zone\" over all of Nablus and the surrounding areas and that they were preventing all movement past check points and road blocks for the indefinitely future. After having no success of passing various checkpoints (even with the child psychologist story and traveling with a real, live psychologist) we went back to the village of Salem. At this point we were traveling with about 5 other internationals who were attempting to get to Tulkarem, a Palestinian city nearby the village of Jayyous. Though some in the group advocated sneaking through the fields past the checkpoint, we decided against this action as we learned that soldiers had been shooting at others who had similarly attempted this strategy. We later met a couple of taxi cab drivers who told us that they knew of a route which by-passed the check points. The trick however was timing the trip just right as to avoid the roaming military vehicles in the area. Our traveling group (which now numbered 11) crammed into the two very small cars (a fiat and an old Toyota) and began heading out of town on bumpy dirt roads. The drivers were clearly nervous about the roaming soldiers and constantly searched the landscape for them. The driver would constantly start and then stop, look around, cautiously continue, then at a moments notice, floor the gas pedal and take off at extremely high speeds trying to get a \"pass\". All three attempts at this failed. As we approached the pass, we would encounter other taxi’s driving just as ferociously from the opposite direction. In what was reminiscent of an action movie, the other taxis would literally fly over the hill toward us and scream at us out their windows that the military was close behind. Our drivers would then make u-turns at far too fast a speed in the loose sandy road and start hurling back to town. The military, it seemed, was not going to allow people escape today.

So we gave up with the plan and took our chances at yet another checkpoint. This time, with some negotiation, we were able to convince the soldiers to allow us to pass to a road which leads to the east. The road wouldn’t go back to Nablus, but it might get us back to Jayyous somehow.

On the other side of the checkpoint we came across a Service which told us that he could take us to Tulkarem and then to Jayyous. The journey, however, would be long in that the entire region was shut down and the only means of getting there would be traveling north east (the opposite direction from our destination) over large mountains on really poor dirt roads. Being that this appeared our only option, we took it. The views from the road were quite stunning as the large mountains and valleys were dotted with distant small villages in the distance. The road was very dangerous. At times we would be heading down extremely steep mountains on the edge of cliffs. The road usually consisted of loose sand and was filled with potholes, rocks, and the like which threw the van from side to side. The van also had to navigate the unbelievable fact that medium sized trucks were also traveling the route. At times we had to all get out of the van and walk across the mounds of debris of former roadblocks so that the van could get over without bottoming out. But the evening was pleasant and a full moon was rising over the hills. The speakers of the van’s radio were distorted and crackling from being played too loud in the past, and the songs which were being played from some distant station, such as \"America\" by Simon and Garfunkel, created a quite surreal feel.

After about an hour and a half we arrived in the village of Al-Agrabaniya.We stopped in the village for some drinks and were immediately surrounded by curious villagers surprised to see foreigners in this isolated area. We continued on our way and then stopped again in Al-Bedhan for Falefel sandwiches and a short break. Again the villagers surrounded us and offered the predictable Palestinian hospitality: we were invited for tea, dinner, and even offered a place to stay for the night. We graciously declined and continued on. At this point, the darkness was settling in and we still had much distance to cover. By the time we entered Tulkarem, 5 hours had lapsed.

The Tulkarem group was let out and we made our way to the checkpoint separating the city to the roads leading south toward Jayyous. The driver began to slow down and opened the curtains and turned on the inside lights. He explained to us that Israeli soldiers were now watching us and that it is best that they be able to see inside the van. The van stopped in the middle of nowhere and in near blackness. The driver pointed in the distance to show us the cab he had arranged for our last leg of the journey. One could see a taxi on a hill a distance away with its fog lights on. Our driver wished us good luck and warned us to walk down the road very slowly. As we made our way down the road we began noticing Israeli soldiers in fortified positions hidden in the brush on both sides of the road. Then a voice screamed at us to halt and ordered us to come, one by one, toward them. They searched our bags and allowed us to continue on to the taxi waiting for us. 20 minutes later we arrived in Jayyous. The journey back from Nablus, which is only some 25 miles way, took 6 hours.

This is typical of how the military occupation restricts and slows down movement. Beyond the restriction of movement, there is the very real concern that one will be detained or harassed by soldiers at checkpoints. One constantly witness and hears stories of Palestinians having to wait many hours to cross. Sometimes they are forced to dance for the soldiers’ amusement, sometimes their papers are thrown into the mud, and usually they are yelled at and ordered around as they were children.

The immense transportation, consumption, and production infrastructure that Israel has created in the West bank which connects the settlements to each other and to Israel proper, closely resembles the apartheid system: there are two different means of travel for two different people. Those who are Israeli travel quickly on good roads; those who are Palestinians travel slowly and on very bad roads. Currently there are currently some 120 permanent Israeli checkpoints and hundreds of road blocks in the Occupied Palestinian territories. In a place about the size of Massachusetts, over 300 separate areas have been created. These areas are basically islands cut off from each other making travel from one place to another extremely difficult.

Such is the experience of travel in an occupied land

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Source file


you tell me
by goldberg 2:37am Wed Jul 23 '03

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....john..you tell me what israel is to do,as to protect herself from your pals terrorist attacks? if your answer is to give your pals a land with the 67 borders and all they want. i suggest you read the posting at the right side of this indy-media site---the one titled DEAR WORLD..........buy the way ,if you really want to help, ride some israeli busses, whats the matter? your ism handlers wont let you?....come on boston johnny boy,no guts no glory

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by -truce--- 3:10am Wed Jul 23 '03

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Goldberg: "you tell me what Israel is to do"

Israel is to do nothing.

It has done more than enpugh.

It is time to undo what it has done!

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by goldberg 3:52am Wed Jul 23 '03

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...o.k.....then will you ride on israeli busses and walk in israeli mkts....this all came about because of the terrorism in the first place.....arafat walking out....or have you forgotten?

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no need to do
by f> 4:14am Wed Jul 23 '03

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The bus rides are the dire effect that proceeds
the cause that is the Dire occupation.
If and when you shall remove the cause, busses
will return being a casual form of transportatio.

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to "No need to do"
by jsuslovich 6:44am Wed Jul 23 '03

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I don't understand how any one can say that the occupation is the cause of attacks on Israel and its citizens rather than the other way around. If the occupation caused the attacks how come Arab terrorism predates the 1967 war before which the west bank was controlled by Jordan (was that also an occupation?) Not only were there endless attacks on Israeli citizens before 1967, they even occurred before 1948. Hebron, for example had a significant Jewish population before the Arabs massacred the Jews there in the 1920s (perhaps the Jews now in Hebron should more correctly be accused of re-occupation. Actually there were Jews throughout the West bank until Jordan captured it when it invaded Palestine in 1948. Jordan eliminated the Jewish presence and declared the sale of land to Jew to be a capital offense. Is that apartheid?). The PLO with its avowed mission of destroying Israel was formed in 1964 - three years before the 1967 war. During the 1950s there were constant raids into Israel by what the Arabs called Fedayeen. Not to mention that the 1967 war itself was caused by the Arab's getting ready to destroy Israel. (some quotes - "The sole method we shall apply against Israel is total war, which will result in the extermination of Zionist Existence" Egyptian radio - Voice of the Arabs May 18, 1967; "I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a war of annihilation" Syrian Defense Minister Hafez al-Assad, May 20 1967; "The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified... Our goal is clear - to wipe Israel off hte map" Iraqi President Aref.

The occupation has nothing to do with attacks on Israel. The attacks predate the "occupation."

I don't expect to convince you but I wouldn't mind hearing how you explain the result (the attacks) taking place before the cause (the occupation).

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by fs 6:48am Wed Jul 23 '03

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amazing! Quite a few run ins with Israeli soldiers but no one was raped or beaten or spit on. Just warnings about terrorists and checking for bombs and weapons. How did they get these paranoid fears?

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zionism is to be discarded for always
by Truth. 8:17am Wed Jul 23 '03

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The occupation pre dates 1967.

The occupation began when the Zionist entity decided to settle by force on a foreign land.

To justify their claim to other peoples land, they came up with pathetic excuses (something regarding Jews residing in Palestine millennia ago yet forgetting that they were not there exclusively but shared the land with people of many different faiths).

Prior to the middle 1900s, the Jewish Palestinians lived peacefully with their Muslim Palestinians as well as their Christian neighbors.

It was the Zionist entity that planted and nurtured the animosity between the Jews and their Native counterparts.

The following metaphor may get the point across more efficiently

I liken the Zionist entity to a LOSER who wants to earn the affections of a gorgeous lady yet has NO Chance in hell.

So he does whatever any desperate criminal would do.

He stages an attack on that lady only to come to her rescue , thus coming across as ‘’her night in shining armor’’.

That lovely lady never in her wildest dreams suspects that it was him all along who caused her the misery he somehow alleviated…

The worst enemy of yours is Zionism the purveyor of anti-Semitism.?

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Dear jsuslovich,
by weep no more 8:40am Wed Jul 23 '03

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Since you asked so "kindly" I will oblige you by helping you see why the attacks on your loved ones pre-dated the occupation.
Although the Image Israel trys to promote is that of an oppressed nation,it is with sadness that the following is presented for all to see:

The following violent "outbursts" are by no means exclusive, but reflect the deeper nature of the Zionist occupation and display that the massacres and expulsions are not aberrations that happen in any war, but organized atrocities with one goal alone which is to have a goy- free land...

List of Massacres committed by Zionists against Palestinians:


- YEHIDA MASSACRE: 13 December 1947: men of the Arab village of Yehiday (near Petah Tekva, the first Zionist settlement to be established) met at the local coffee house when they saw a British Army patrol enter the village, they were reassured espeically that Jewish terrorists had murdered 12 Palestinians the previous day. The four cars stopped in front of the cafe house and out stepped men dressed in khaki uniforms and steel helmets. However, it soon became apparent that they had not come to protect the villagers. With machine guns they sprayed bullets into the crowd gathered in the coffee house. Some of the invaders placed bombs next to Arab homes while other disguised terrorists tossed grenades at civilians. For a while it seemed as if the villagers would be annihilated but soon a real British patrol arrived to foil the well organized killing raid. The death toll of 7 Arab civilans could have been much higher. Earlier the same day 6 Arabs were killed and 23 wounded when home made bombs were tossed at a crowd of Arabs standing near the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem. In Jaffa another bomb killed six more Arabs and injured 40.


- KHISAS MASSACRE: 18 December 1947: Two carloads of Haganah terrorists drove through the village of Khisas (on the Lebanese Syrian border) firing machine guns and throwing grenades. 10 Arab civilians were killed in the raid.


- QAZAZA MASSACRE: 19 December 1947: 5 Arab children were murdered when Jewish terrorists blew up the house of the village Mukhtar.


- AL-SHEIKH VILLAGE MASSACRE: 1 January 1948: On that night around two hundred Zionists armed with hand grenades and machine guns sneaked into a small village called al-Shaikh village (5km South East of Haifa). The attackers came through the southern hills (most possibly from Nisher Jewish settlement wich lies about 5Km south of the village). They attacked the houses on the edges of the village with hand-grenades and finished off with machine-guns killing around 40 of the Palestinians inhibitants of the village, mostly women and children.


- DEIR YASSIN MASSACRE: 9-10 April 1948: The massacre that became the symbol of Zionist aggression fo the Palestinians as well as Zionist treachery. The Mukhtar of the village had agreed with the Zionists to provide information on the movement of strangers in the area as well as other intelligence provided their village is spared. The Zionists were not to keep their side of the promise. In an operation which was called Operation Unity, the Haganah co-operated with the Irgun and the Stern Gang is this operation. At 4:30 am on Friday 9th April 1948 surrounded the village which was overlooked by two Jewish settlements, Givat Shaul and Montefiore. For two days Zionist terrorists killed men women and children, raped women and stole their jewellery. A chilling account of the massacre is given by a Red Cross doctor who arrived at the village on the second day and saw himself -- the omen and stole their jewellery. A chilling account of the massacre is given by a Red Cross doctor who arrived at the village on the second day and saw himself -- the mopping up as one of the terrorists put it to him. He says that the mopping gup- had been done with machine guns, then grenades and finisheday and saw himself -- the mopping up as one of the terrorists put it to him. He says that the mopping gup- had been done with machine guns, then grenades and finished of with knives. Women's bellies were cut open and babies were butchered in the hands of their helpless mothers. Around 250 people were murdered in cold blood. Of them 25 pregnant women were bayoneted in the abdomen while still alive. 52 children were maimed under the eyes of their own mothers, and they were slain and their heads cut off. The Jewish Agency and the commander of the British ground troops knew of the massacre while it was going on. However, no one intervened to stop it.

Deir Yassin Remembered


- NASER AL-DIN MASSACRE: 13-14 April 1948, a contingent of Lehi and Irgon entered this village (near Tiberias) entered the village on the night of 13 April dressed as Arab fighters. Upon their entrance to the village the people went out to greet them, the terrorists met them with fire, killing every single one of them. Only 40 people survived. All the houses of the village were raised to the ground.
Abu Shusha Massacre

Abu Shusha Massacre


- BEIT DARAS MASSACRE: 21 May 1948, after a number of failed attempts to occupy this village, the Zionists mobilized a large contingent and surrounded the village. The people of Beit Daras decided that women and children should leave. As women and children left the village they were met by the Zionist army who massacred them despite the fact that they could see they were women and children fleeing the fighting.


- THE DAHMASH MOSQUE MASSACRE: 11 July 1948, after the Israeli 89th Commando Battalion lead by Moshe Dayan occupied Lydda, the Israelis told Arabs through loudspeakers that if they went into a certain mosque they would be safe. In retaliation for a hand grenade attack after the surrender that killed several Israeli soldiers, 80-100 Palestinians were massacred in the mosque, their bodies lay decomposing for 10 days in the mid-summer heat. The mosque still stands abandoned today. This massacre spread fear and panic among the Arab population of Lydda and Ramle, who were then ordered to march out of these towns after they were stripped of all personal belonging by Israeli soldiers. Yetzak Rabin, Brigade Commander then says: - There was no way of avoiding the use of force and warning shots in order to make the inhabitants march ten to fifteen miles to the point where they met up with the legion-. Most of the 60,000 inhabitants of Lyda and Ramble came to refugee camps near Ramallah, around 350 lost their lives on the way through dehydration and son stroke. Many survived by drinking their own urine. The conditions in the refugee camps were to claim more lives.


- DAWAYMA MASSACRE: 29 October 1948, the followin is the testimony of a soldier who participated in the occupation of the village of Dawayma (in the Haifa subdistrict):-.. They killed between 80 to 100 Arab men women and children. To kill children they factured their heads with sticks. Threre was not one home left without corpses .... One commander ordered a soldier to bring two women into a building he was about to blow up... Another soldier prided himself on having raped an Arab women before shooting her to death...-. The massacre was perpetrated by the 89th Battalion, the authors of Lydda massacre.


- SHARAFAT MASSACRE: 7 Febraury 1951, Israeli soldiers corssed the armistice line to this village (5Km from Jerusalem) and blew up the houses of the Mukhtar and his neighbors. 10 were killed (2 elderly men,raeli soldiers corssed the armistice line to this village (5Km from Jerusalem) and blew up the houses of the Mukhtar and his neighbors. 10 were killed (2 elderly men, 3 woemen and 5 children) and 8 were wounded.


- KIBYA MASSACRE: 14 October 1953, 9:30 pm about 700 regular Israeli troops attacked the border Jordanian village of Kibya, north west of Jerusalem. Using mortars, machine guns, rifles and explosives they blew up 42 houses, the local schools and the mosque. Every man, woman, and child found by these criminals was killed. 75 innocent villagers were murdered in cold blood. The raids were ordered by Ariel Sharon.


- KAFR QASEM MASSACRE: 29 October 1956 Israeli frontier guards started at 4pm what they called a tour of the Triangle Villages. They told the Mukhtars of those villages that the curfew from that day onwards was to start from 5pm instead of 6pm. They reached Kafr Qasem around 4:45 and informed the Mukhtar protested that there are about 400 villagers working outside the village and there is not enough time to inform them of the new times. An officer assured him that they will be taken care of. Then the guards waited at the entrance to the village. 43 Kafr Qasem inhabitants were massacred in cold blood by the army as they returned from work, their crime was violating a curfew they did not know about. On the northern entrance of the village 3 were killed and 2 were killed inside of the village. Amongst the dead were men, women, and children. Lutanat Danhan was touring the area in his jeep reproting the massacre, on his wireless he said "minus 15 Arabs" after a while his message on the radio to his H.Q. was "it is difficult to count".


- AL-SAMMOU' MASSACRE: 13 November 1966, Israeli forces raided this village, destroyed 125 houses, the village clinic and school as well as 15 houses in a neighbouring village. 18 people were killed and 54 wounded.


- THE SABRA AND SHATILA MASSACRE: 15-18 September 1982, after the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon, Phalangist puppets of the Israelis massacred over 3000 Palestinian men, women, and children under the watchful eyes of the Israel army. A body count by the International committee of the Red Cross revealed 2750 dead, the real figure is thought to be much higher and may never be known.

The Massacre at Sabra and Chatila


- OYON QARA MASSACRE (RISHON LEZION): 20 May 1990, an Israeli soldier lined up Palestinian labors and murdered seven of them with a sub-machine gun. 13 Palesinians were killed by Israeli forces in subsequent demonstrations at the massacre.


- AL-AQSA MOSQUE MASSACRE: 8 October 1990, Israeli police opened fire on worshipers in al-Aqsa mosque killing 22 people.


- THE IBRAHIMI MOSQUE MASSACRE: 25 February 1994, A Jewish terrorist, from Keryat Arba' settlement massacred 60 worshipers in the Ibrahimi Mosque in al-Khalil (Hebron) and wounded about 200. Later massive demostrations took to the streets of Palestine and the Zionist army responded by life amunitions killing 23 and wounding hundreds more. Reports indicate there were 3 Jewish settler gunners, not only one.

The Hebron Massacre


- THE JABALIA MASSACRE: 28 March 1994, A Jewish undercover police opened fire on Palestinian activists brutally killing 6 and injuring 49. Some of the wounded activists were taken out of their cars and shot in their heads to death.


- ERETZ CHECKPOINT MASSACRE: 17 July 1994, Palestinian sources reported that the occupation forces had committed Sunday morning a disgusting massacre against Palestinian workers at Eretz Checkpoint. Eyewitnesses and Israeli sources reported that 11 Palestinians have been shot dead and 200 injured. Israeli sources also reported that 21 Israeli soldiers including 1 settler were injured. Two soldiers were shot by bullets, one died. As reported by Palestinian and Israeli sources, the scene was described as a war zone which lasted for 6 hours. Four Israeli tanks and helicopters were brought by the occupation forces, while a number of settlers were taking part in firing at Palestinians. Protests had spread all over the Occupied Territories. In Gaza, Palestinians raised black flags and called for revenge. In Ramallah, shops closed while several clashes were reported. Several clashes were reported at Hebron University yesterday, and today two Palestinians were shot in Hebron.

These are just some of the massacres committed against the Palestinians by the Zionists. If the raids on southern Lebanon old and new were to be taken into account the true magnitude of Zionist crimes against humanity could start to emerge. If one were to go into the gruesome details of the atrocities committed in 1948 the -mopping up operations -, the deliberate humiliation and massacres of Arabs and the desecration of the holy places of both Muslim and Christian as well as the looting of these holy places and personal property by the Israeli army and settlers; one might just start to appreciate what Zionism is all about.

"Destroy all of the land; beat down their pillars and break their statues and waste all of their high places, cleansing the land and dwelling in it, for I have given it to you for a possession" Numbers 33:52,53

"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city both men and women, young and old and ox and sheep and ass with the edge of the sword." Joshua 6:21

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by lets not forget 8:56am Wed Jul 23 '03

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...the above is crucial to take into account since those who don't learn from history may be doomed to repeat it.

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Hey Weep No More
by Slappy 2:08pm Wed Jul 23 '03

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You forgot the Jenin Massacre of 2002, where 500 Palestinians were killed - none of them armed or hostile.

I read what Saeb Erekat said. He assured the world that at least 500 Arabs were killed, but the number is probably much higher. Maybe we will never know exactly how many were killed.

Oh, wait a minute, that didn't happen at all. It was another Arab lie waiting for a fool like you to bite. Just like the rest of your stuff on the list.

Why don't you do a little bit of research into Der Yassin: another hoax, just like Jenin. And if you want to make a list of what you call Israeli massacres, maybe you should leave off the stuff where Arabs killed Arabs, like in Sabra and Shattila. It makes your list look pathetic.

I kept waiting for you to add the Sept. 11 attacks on the WTC. Everyone knows the Arabs had nothing to do with that.

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jsuslovich is on the money
by Ben 7:49pm Wed Jul 23 '03

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What parts of Iraq did Israel occupy that it sent
39 Scud missiles at Israel in 1991?

And what parts of Syria or Jordan were occupied
on June 4, 1967 that those countries attacked
Israel? It was Jordan that was occupying the West
Bank at that time.

Its not worth arguing with people who insist its
the occupation that is responsible for the
Arab-Israeli conflict. Anyone who thinks Israel
is completely to blame and the Arabs are some
sort of saints is living in his own imagination.
It is better to ignore them completely, since
they, like the brainwashed zombies in the ISM or
the guy above who lists crimes Israel didn't even
commit, are completely immune to reason.

But there are many open-minded people out there
as well who fall under their influence, so it is
vital to answer attacks on Israel.

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by John Veldhuis 11:19am Thu Jul 24 '03

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"What parts of Iraq did Israel occupy that it
39 Scud missiles at Israel in 1991? "

Do the deeds of a mad dictator need explanation
to you?

"And what parts of Syria or Jordan were occupied
on June 4, 1967 that those countries attacked

On June 4, 1967, Israel was the attacker...

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oh john
by goldberg 7:27pm Thu Jul 24 '03

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..oh john....how you must wish to have been born back when you could have been a guard at treblinka.

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to: "weep no more" & "truth"
by JSuslovich 7:29pm Thu Jul 24 '03

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Thanks for the explanation. I now understand your position. The term "occupation" relates not to the west bank but to all of Israel. When you ask for an "end to the occupation" that's a euphemism for the dissolution of the state of Israel and submission to Arab rule. I suppose the Palestinian Jews (whatever that means) could then ,as "Truth" put it, "live peacefully" with their Arab neighbors. (Of course that is a myth. The Jews in Arab lands had to accept Dhimmi status - that's apartheid with a vengeace - and an occasional pogrom and massacre. Truth, their are numerous factual studies that you could read if you are interested in the truth). I do not agree with you. I believe that the Jewish people are in Israel by right. Alowing the Arabs to remain is a compromise in the interests of peace and/or compassion. But I can understand an Arab not honestly feeling that way. But you are not honest. Why do you and many on this web site not say it the way it is. Withdrawal from post 1967 conquered territory won't solve anything; it's not what you want. You want the State of Israe to commit suicide and throw itself on the mercy of the Arab world. The foreign "peace activists" don't want peace between two independent peoples; they want another Arab state with Jews living on sufferance (or not at all). Why beat around the bush with misleading slogans about occupation, apartheid, etc. Stop trying to fool those who might balk at your position if they understood what it really is.

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To jSusLovICh
by Truth' 10:40pm Thu Jul 24 '03

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Oh by the way:
by truth. 11:10pm Thu Jul 24 '03

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jsuslovick sick of your double standards
by truth 12:59am Fri Jul 25 '03

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you remind me of holocaust deniers as you deny all of the war crimes perpetrated by your beloved nation...
Victims of Jews are as deserving of acknowledgement as all Jewish victims.

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Why go back there, goldberg?
by John Veldhuis 11:35am Fri Jul 25 '03

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Why go back to Treblinka?

I could become a jew, do aliya, and apply for a job as guard in a prison camp in Israel... Or do service in the IDF and harass Palestinians at checkpoints, or even become a bulldozerdriver.

Opportunities enough for the inhumane...

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